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May 01, 2009

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Adam

We are running a few Oracle DB instances in VMware, but the lack of support was especially annoying when engineering our new Peoplsoft solution. Even so, we are proceeding forward with our Test/Dev environments in VMware. Needless to say, we are less than happy with Oracle's lack of support.

Itzik

writing in behalf of VISA CAL IL, 888.com, Isracard (AMEX) IL.
they were specifically refused support for running oracle inside a Vmware VM.

Nick

We've solved that one by not running Oracle. I've worked with them as a customer and for them as a company that got purchased by Oracle, and I'm sure they have some nice employees somewhere, but the only ones I've ever met were pushy and arrogant. With Microsoft, we still get a little arrogance, but less pushy.

James S

All I can say...is that if you can make MS look like a good guy in business negotiations and positioning...then that is truly taking the cake Oracle! Congrats!!!

David Robertson

Yeah we are a big Oracle shop, and and we are trying to decide which Virtualization platform we use, and it looks like because Oracle only support Oracle under OracleVM, we will have 2 platform, VMWare and OracleVM. Thanks Oracle!

Tarry Singh

Chad,

Fully agree with your last part there. Customer's should be able to pick what runs/fits in their best interests.

Gazillion Dollar question here to ask is:

Why and where EMC/VMware have failed in getting Oracle on board?*

I have large enterprise customers who refuse to run Oracle on VMware. This does not necessarily have to go to Oracle itself but DBAs know what they have running and are not interested in putting Oracle on its VM.

And now with Oracle's own Oracle VM, why would anyone want to run on VMware? Why not simply test for FREE with oracle's FREE Oracle VM?

I guess I'll write a separate analytical post on my blog on this one.

Chad Sakac

Tarry - looking forward to seeing your thoughts, and am open to every idea.

But as you author it - consider that Oracle is only one part of the IT stack (a "vertical stack"), like storage is a "vertical stack", whereas VMware is a "horizontal stack".

I'll put it this way.

If the question is posed as "what hypervisor is used for server consolidation in Oracle environments" - then your question of OracleVM vs VMware has a certain context. Though interestingly, more people choose VMware even in this case - see the customer post to another EMCer who had the same thought at the same time I did here: http://chucksblog.emc.com/chucks_blog/2009/05/why-oracle-doesnt-like-vmware.html. This perspective is often the DBAs perspective. The DBAs view is (and this is right for them) squarely focused on their domain. There, frankly, HUGE optimization can be made in many, many places that have nothing to do with infrastructure.


If the question is thought of more how an IT director/CIO would look at it (not just the DBA) - which is how do I make my APPLICATION STACK more efficient and fluid (which involves not only the DB, but the presentation and application layers - many of which may be Windows, or other Linux variants, and home-grown apps) - then you can quickly see why a "horizontal" datacenter view of virtualization is needed.

Virtualizing just a database server is silly, as you can run many instances, and acheive the benefit of server consolidation. Virtualizing across the datacenter, being able to encapsulate and do DR for the full application stack - those things are important.

Again - looking forward to your post - ping me when it's up!

Tarry Singh

Chad,

Chuck's prbably in bed and needs to approve my response to his post as well :-). I have saved a copy to use it for my analysis nevertheless.

Nate's view is very common. I've been a Enterprise Admin (Oracle 7.3 thru 11g - 11g is more play at home than at customer sites but I'm playing again at home with Oracle VM and its own e-delivery templates) for quite a while and I know how it goes.

Just today I called up my migration team (I'm on a week off visiting family/friends in U.S) and had to battle off a poorly built Windows box with Oracle 8i SE + SQL Server on a Windows box). I am doing a rush suck-and-run on VI project and starting playing backwards as to how it may have played out. Well that is least interesting but the most important for me was too look at the AppStack and see who finally won: Answer = SAP.

This is what happens (do read my detailed comment when Chuck approves the comment, which he will, he's a good friend across the pond). Customer got something totally different. Oracle lost. VMware lost (I am not allowed to take those SAP boxes to VI, for some obscure reason). SAP (kinda) won. Weirdest part is: Customer got "something".

I'll ping you alright ;-)

toly

I was reading with interest.
Interestingly enough Oracle offers VM Workstation internally to its Sales and Consultants. So its OK to use Vmware product when you need it but not Ok for the customers. Oracle basically says to its customers: We will decide what you guys use in the datacentre :)

:0)

Efstathios Efstathiou

Every vendor tries to "assimilate" you. Once you got an EMC Storage Array naturally they will try to sell yout their Stack (Legato, Documentum, VmWare). Same for IBM: you buy a Pseries, so they offer you Websphere/Tivoli/DB2 for a dumping price. So does Oracle. Speaking from a DBA point of view, clearly you will push your management to go all Oracle Solution to work convenietly, if you are asked. You would be rather stupid not to make it the most convenient for you. Strategically (speaking for Microsoft and Oracle) EMC is in a bad position, since being a mainly hardware vendor. Microsoft goes towards Hyper-V, Oracle pulls towards Oracle VM, so it is quite realistic, that VmWare will loose the battle sooner or later, if the market get's more dense. Revolution eats its children.

rob margeson

dude.. oracle sucks on VMware. Oracle VM was designed to fully supported Oracle functionality. Who in the right mind would run VMware to support their enterprise apps in Oracle which it performs like crap? Lets take a highly hardware depended database/app system and virtualize on a hypervisor that is software based. Oracle VM = Xen = Hardware Virtualization!

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